Section 8 (brace yourselves for some nasty comments)

A reader asks:

“With all the ballyhoo about Section 8 taking over Long Beach by some of your [readers], it’s time to see exactly where the 8’s are living. Where are the Section 8 tenants? Dollars to donuts, it’s not that many.

To make this clearer: Some of you have indicated that there’s more section 8 housing in LB, how it’s [apparently] all part of a grand plan by democrats in office because it [apparently means] more votes for them. This reader wants those commentators to prove it.

I did a google image search for 'Section 8' and this is what I got.
I did a google image search for ‘Section 8’ and this is what I got.

106 Replies to “Section 8 (brace yourselves for some nasty comments)”

  1. It would be interesting to see the ratio of section 8 here as compared to nassau overall and some individual towns and villages in the vicinity.

  2. The reader “asks” questions, and then says “Dollars to donuts, it’s not that many.” If they know the answers, what are they? Otherwise, why ask, and how did you conclude that “Dollars to donuts, it’s not that many.”

  3. @Lori – What would be interesting to see is if the problems blamed on Section 8, really are caused by Section 8. The ratio and comparisons to other parts of LI should be irrelevant to residents.

  4. well, I actually know the person who asked this. Basically, some commentators on this blog are indicating there’s more section 8 in LB, how it’s [apparently] all part of a grand plan by dems in office because it [apparently means] more votes for them.

    This reader wants those commentators to prove it.

  5. Hi Tom, didn’t mean to imply section 8 is cause of problems. Believe me, there are plenty of non section 8 trouble makers here. I am grateful that I am not section 8 following my long layoff. My question was just out of. curiosity.

  6. I’m no fan of section 8 but u can’t blame everything crime wise on them. I gave neighbors all born and raised in LB. Kids deal weed all day long cops do nothing because everyone knows someone. Just plain old white trash lol.

  7. My elderly mom lived in one of the Senior Citizens residences. It was built and owned by the municipality and managed by a management company that from what I saw and heard was a pretty good one. The building had around 60 apartments. All of the public/common areas were kept spotlessly clean and were always painted, carpeted and tiled very nicely. The building was populated by mostly little white haired old ladies who were widows with a few old couples sprinkled around. There were no crime problems whatsoever.

    Close to 100% of the residents had social security as their sole income. In my mom’s case, her actual rent was around $800/monthly. Based on her income, she paid around $200/ monthly and Section 8 (HUD I think) paid around $600/monthly as a subsidy. The others were subsidised according to their need as well.

    I don’t know what all of the bellyaching about section 8 s in LB is about, perhaps a non-troll can enlighten us.

  8. I did a little research after the last round of “comments” about the Section 8 population in LB on another page. There are currently 330 families living with the assistance of “Section 8 Vouchers” in Long Beach. That is down from a peak of 375-ish a few years ago. “Section 8 Tenants” rent houses and apartment from your neighbors, not from the city, county, state or federal government. The accommodations must be approved by the city’s housing authority for health and safety issues. Most of the people in the Section 8 program are what has been come to be know as “working poor.”

  9. Here’s an upfront disclaimer; the following is going to sound obnoxiously callous and it’s going to sting.

    The “bellyaching” is that your Mom couldn’t afford to live here if she could only pay $200 a month. That $600 difference was made up by the rest of us who pay a shit ton more than $200 or $800 to live at the beach. I’m sure your Mom is a wonderful person, but I don’t want to subsidize her housing.

    The same thing is being said about all of us who have flood insurance. The rest of the country is pretty pissed they are subsidizing our artificially low rates, which is why the subsidies are being removed.

  10. do you mean to tell me that this administration is so incompetent that they’re even failing in their own master plan of packing the city with section 8 votes?

    *snark implied*

  11. Section 8 is just Republican Internet forum code for “black”.

    People blaming jack schnirman for bla….. err… section 8 people living on Long beach ate fools.

    Why did seabythecity become all about politics, racism, and paid fireman, etc. This page used to be about the good things in Long Beach. Much like Project 11561, there seems to have been some sort of weird political shift and tons of negativity for the sake of political attacks. It’s sad that the Internet conversations are always hijacked by the people with political agendas and personal axes to grind.

  12. Interesting take, however it seems to me you have it 180 degrees wrong. This page seems straight-up to me and other one you name seems to me to be a politically motivated page.

  13. “Why did seabythecity become all about politics, racism, and paid fireman, etc.”

    Can you please re-write that as “Why did the comments here become all about politics, racism, and paid fireman, etc.”

    Please don’t put that all on me. Trust me, I hate it too. But it’s election year, so that’s what we are going to have until mid November.

  14. Your hypocrisy is amazing, you start by making a ridiculous claim of “Section 8” being a political party’s code for racism then follow it up by complaining about people making comments on politics and racism. I would laugh if it weren’t the sad reality of stupidity.

  15. Some information in regards to section 8 in LB;

    It shows that the waiting list for new section 8 Vouchers in Long Beach is closed. I believe it has been closed for several years. The only info I could find said that the waiting list was last opened in 2003 but that was in the 2006 master plan. Anybody have any more recent information?

    But based on the fact it is now closed the number receiving section 8 is a constant number or at least not going up and as another commented is going down. Now there may have been some movement of people using section 8 vouchers from one rental to another after Sandy but that doesn’t mean there are more people on section 8.

    I googled looking for section 8 rentals in Long beach, NY and it showed a listing of only five available.

    But again can’t guarantee the accuracy.

    I also tried MLS for rentals and there are 140 rentals or so listed and none mentioned “Section 8” or “vouchers” when entered as a keyword.
    So maybe it is all just people perception that a new family or two has moved to the area and they belive them to be section 8 or a family from another part of town moved to their neighborhood.

    Just my two cents worth.

  16. I just want meaningful and constructive conversations. I’m glad this topic didn’t really go downhill as much as I thought it would, but as you can see, some folks are actually posting useful info. We are all learning!

  17. gotcha. Let’s face it, I posted this question because I want to put an end to all allegations that the democrats are planting instant voters in Long Beach. It’s nonsense.

  18. Jeff, please provide your source and where it can be seen for the rest of us non-connected residents. Because last time I checked section 8 information is extremely hard to get a hold of, even with FOILs.

    The major issue with Section 8 is that the majority who are on it, need it BUT there is a good percentage that abuse it (because there is not sufficient policing of the program). So it is the classic story of a few bad people ruining it for the rest. But the program should do better policing and clean it up, but with Cruz handling it, good luck with that, not that Goodman was much better.

    In the end, I agree with the posted above that section 8 should not be subsidizing people to “live at the beach”, it seems to be an abuse of the system, when they could easily get more efficient housing in other areas that would allow others, who need to be in the program, access.

  19. If iStar went section 8 you would likely have a real Civil War style revolt. Having the government paying for beachfront rentals would signal the end. I cannot even imagine the most liberal of thinkers agreeing that tax dollars should fund that.

  20. It’s fairly common for new large buildings in NYC to contain a required portion of subsidized units in order to receive favorable tax treatment (some times over 10% of the units) some of the programs I’ve seen in Manhattan require minimum income levels of over 80k a year. Not exactly the types you associate with “subsidized housing”.

    This may be part of the istar project, but I’m not informed enough to say for sure.

  21. 10% of istar/wayfarer will be set aside for “workforce housing”, which is defined as up to 130% of LB’s AMI. again, not what most ppl would consider “subsidized”.

    ps…the set aside is because of state law, not out of the goodness of the corporation’s hearts.

  22. Believe it or not some of there section 8’s are in many of those high rental buildings right now.
    And you and I are paying for it.

  23. Section 8 is a voucher program. Therefore there are vouchers from Freeport housing and other housing authorities on Long Island, able to be used in Long Beach. So just because you are looking at the Long Beach Housing Authority having a smaller list or the list being closed, other municipalities are providing vouchers and they can be and are being used in long Beach rental units….

  24. You only have to go as far as Beach 17 Street in Far Rockaway to see 1200 Section 8 beachfront apartments. Or, if you prefer Section 8 Luxury apartments, go to Beach 26th Street and the Boardwalk.

  25. Section 8 referrals also come from Nassau County not just the City of Long Beach. The number of placements in a given community should be considerate of general economic demographics as to not burden property values. Attributing racial motives to section 8 opposition is the canard of the duplicitous, in my opinion.

  26. The biggest problem with Section 8 comes in the one- and two family rentals. Imagine you save up to buy a $500,000 home of your dreams a block from the ocean. The owner next door then rents to Section 8.

    Since location pays a huge roll in home values and in quality of life, imagine to loss you’ll suffer. It’s legal blockbusting.

    Certainly not all Section 8 families destroy their homes, but many do. And only an ignorant person would associate this with race. Bad neighbors aren’t limited to any particular race.

    If you want examples of this, for starters, you can drive down Walnut Street. One owner lost $350,000 in equity there in a beautiful historic home because a huge clan of “problem tenants” were moved in next door to him, making his life a living hell.

  27. @Frank McQuade: As I read it, once they move to LB they become part of LB-PHA managed cases. So yes the number can increase without the waiting list opening but in HUD data they are LB PHA cases once they move.

    Moving on, as others have stated above it is hard to find facts out about section 8 but I did find some stuff:

    “The Housing Authority of Long Beach administers both a public housing and Section 8 housing voucher program. The housing authority owns and manages 2 projects which contain 374 affordable rental units. It also administers 389 Section 8 housing vouchers. (Source United States Department of Housing and Urban Development (, 2014)) “

    I did also find a data-set on the HUD website that said in April 2010 there were 363 families receiving HUD vouchers in LB,

    I found another data-set that was dated 12/19/2012 that shows there were 389 families receiving section 8 in LB as of that date.

    So there was a small increase to 389 families (approx. 6%) getting section 8 in 2012 from 2010 but based on the other cite it appears to have remained constants since 2012 to 2014. So there doesn’t seem to be much of a flood.

    Of that 389 how many of them are in the city run public housing? So then how many can be left to be getting section 8 on the public market?
    Again can anyone show a real concrete number or are we all just guessing?

    In trying to figure it out for myself, outside the buildings run by the LB PHA (again I’m guessing, but trying to make an educated guess) I don’t think it’s that many. There doesn’t appear to be a lot of units out there available for section 8 in the private market. First the unit has to be legal and inspected by HUD via LB PHA. So, all those illegal basement apartments and illegal conversions to multi-unit can’t get section 8.

    In addition rent that section 8 pays doesn’t cover LB market rents on the private market for the most part. What they pay in Nassau county is:
    Efficiency $1,100, 1 BR $1,395, 2 BR $1,718, 3 BR $2,234 4 BR $2,572

    On MLSLI for rentals there are 145 active rental listings in zip code 11561. None say in the listing they accept “section 8” or “vouchers.” Taking out winter only rentals, there are no 1 BR that meet that standard and only 2 within $100 dollars of it. The cheapest 2 BR is $1,950 more than $200 over what section 8 pays. The next three 2BR are $2,000 or more. There is one 3BR (127 E Chester St , Long Beach, NY 11561 ) for $2,200 that meets the rent guidelines but the next three lowest are $2,400-$2,450. And the cheapest 4BR are listed at $2,800.

    I did find those five listings yesterday that said they would take section 8 on another site.

    Based on all this it appears that of the 145 active rental listings on MLS there is only one that meets the standard rent set by HUD and five others available that say they take section 8.

    So unless all these “Section 8” people that are supposed to be rushing to LB to take over the city are also reaching into their own pockets to pay extra rent above and beyond the 30% of their income that HUD requires it doesn’t seem they have many options for places to rent in LB so how can they be flooding LB with new section 8 people?

    Finally the data from HUD that I can find just doesn’t support the theory of a great rush or flood of section 8 people into LB but there is a modest increase of 23 families in four years.

  28. Mein, wonderful research.

    Do note that the 389 cases are strictly those families for whom rent is paid to private landlords. It does not include those in the public housing projects or those in City owned buildings. Those buildings are the two Senior Citizen buildings and the low income (called “affordable housing” projects in North Park run by the LBHA.

    Assuming the 389 are in one and two family houses, and there are a bit over 3,000 private homes in Long Beach, that’s between 5% and 10% of all private homes filled with Section 8 clients.

    Now do the math: What’s the chance of one of these places being next door to you?

    No wonder nobody’s buying here.

  29. @Sandra B:

    A few things your numbers are way off.

    According to City Data – there are over 24,000 residential units in LB (Houses, Condos and renter occupied apartments)

    Just to conform a real quick calculation by looking at the easiest 100% accurate document I had at hand the “City of LB tax roll for 2015” is about 1660 pages with 5-6 properties per page. So there are at least 8,300 tax paying properties in LB knowing that many are multi-unit some in the hundreds, the actual number of housing units in LB is probably close to that 24,000 number. So it’s about 1.5% of housing units in LB getting section 8 not the more than 10% you state.

    Also, section 8 can and is used to pay for apartments in public housing so no all of those 389 aren’t in privately owned housing stock. Again I hate to guess but I would figure the majority or a very large percentage are in the public housing units,

    Straight from HUD:

    “The housing choice voucher program is the federal government’s major program for assisting very low-income families, the elderly, and the disabled to afford decent, safe, and sanitary housing in the private market. Since housing assistance is provided on behalf of the family or individual, participants are able to find their own housing, including single-family homes, townhouses and apartments.

    The participant is free to choose any housing that meets the requirements of the program and is not limited to units located in subsidized housing projects.

    Housing choice vouchers are administered locally by public housing agencies (PHAs). The PHAs receive federal funds from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) to administer the voucher program.

    A family that is issued a housing voucher is responsible for finding a suitable housing unit of the family’s choice where the owner agrees to rent under the program. This unit may include the family’s present residence. Rental units must meet minimum standards of health and safety, as determined by the PHA.

    A housing subsidy is paid to the landlord directly by the PHA on behalf of the participating family. The family then pays the difference between the actual rent charged by the landlord and the amount subsidized by the program.”

  30. I totally agree Sanda…..I live on the East End….know of one house where section 8 tenants reside on my block….house is kept up nicely for the most part but other houses on my block with absentee landlords…..houses that were sold to these landlords for 400k plus years ago….they are trash zones….weeds as high as my knees……i have in the past called the buidling dept to intervene because we started to see alot of racoons and what not. Section 8 is not the problem…people not caring about thier surroundings….thats the problem….

  31. Ann, Section 8 is the problem. Houses are given to people who will not care for them. They have proven their inability to support and care for themselves and their families. Does anyone think they’ll support and care for a home?

  32. I know what block you are talking about and the house for sale that you are talking about. It’s all a mess.. weeds, garbage, it’s crazy because that’s a really nice part of town. That’s long beach though… some blocks are kept up and some are falling apart.

  33. There is no such thng as a small list. Lists open once in a blue moon for a very short period and they have to close because there simply is not enough housing for all those who qualify (hence the lottery system in nyc and other dense areas). There is crrently no place in the country without a waitlist. unless you are a priority expect to wait 3-5 years for a living space.

    You can apply from anywhere to anywhere – geography does not matter with applications.

  34. Sorry to disagree, Mein. My count of Class A properties (single and two-family) is right from the Nassau Dept. of Assessment. Your 24,000 number includes units in apartment buildings, condos, coops and multiple dwellings.

    Those living in City owned buildings are not included in the 389 count.

    I have a list of Section 8 landlords with addresses. Each is a private home and it numbers well over 400 residences.

  35. Sandra B – please share your source where list could be found or if hard copy maybe send to Anthony and he can possibly sanitize it of any identifying information and post as an update.

  36. That’s a great idea. We could paint the number “8” on the front doors just incase something happens in the neighborhood then we’ll know who to blame. Make a map. Hey then we can use the city trolley bus to do a Section 8 housing tour! Fun!

    And then we should start rounding up the gays tattoo rainbows on their arms so we can protect the children.

    These people, they might be contagious.

    Also, you are all dicks.

  37. White privilege is a crock. Stop with that BS that is taught in all of the overpriced colleges in this country. I was given nothing because of my race and I expect nothing. I work hard every day and I’m still struggling like everybody else. Just because your white and feel privileged don’t Assume all whites are like you. The connotation of white privilege is in itself racist. We are all the same. I work hard and SAVE my money so my kids will get a better starting point than I did. They may or may not. The jury is still out, but life is about sacrifice. I sacrifice now for them.
    Don’t point your BS white guilt finger at anyone else but yourself. I don’t feel guilty, relieved, etc. for being white, I’m just me. The fact that you feel privileged because your white kind of indicates to me that you are a racist. Piss off.

  38. I have been skeptical about the Section 8 claims heard here and in the Patch over the last several years, but other than living here and being out and about a lot, as with my family, including several children in every level of school, which forms my guesstimate that there is not a rash increase (and maybe no material increase) of Section 8 housing, I don’t know for sure. What I do know for sure is that:

    1. There are homeowners on nearly every block that do not tend to their home (mostly their business, but lacking in concern for the neighborhood, and, thus, not neighborly)
    2. There are many homeowners on nearly every block who do not maintain their sidewalks and curbs – which IS their responsibility per the City Municipal Code (Sec 23-11), and who do not keep their sidewalks and gutters clean – also their responsibility per the Code (Sec 23-8), and who do not maintain street trees adjacent to their property – also their responsibility (Sec 23-11.1)
    3. There are merchants (“occupants” – Sec 23-11) and commercial landlords (“owners” – 23-11) who do not maintain their sidewalks and curbs, and who do not keep their sidewalks and gutters clean (23-7 – “merchants”, 23-8 – “owners”), and who do not maintain street trees adjacent to their property (Sec 23-11.1)
    4. Regularly, there is garbage out in front of Park Avenue commercial establishments (“merchants”), who are required not to put it out or allow it to remain except 5:30 am – 7:30am and 9:30am – 11:30am (maybe a typo – should be pm?)

    I can add a host of other things – like public drunkenness, fights, and related noise and public urination suffered by West End residents; out-of-towners not respecting the beach (I found the wallet of one at dawn this morning along with half dozen solo cups, beer bottles and a broken styro cooler at Monroe), which is a policing issue as much as anything else; and I could go on. But those top items really distinguish Long Beach from lots of similar middle class Nassau communities, and they are completely in our enforcement control and these are real every day quality of life and property value issues — and they have nothing whatsoever to do with Section 8, best I can tell.

  39. Unfortunately, the bad clients taint the reputations of the good, as those with an disproportionate percentage of any negative trait do to their group.

    You need not paint anything on a Section 8 house or client. They speak for themselves.

    We all picked you out, didn’t we? See how easy that was?

  40. I see the same thing in other parts of town as well. Part of the problem is that the city allows the slum lords to let their 2 family homes get run down so that no one normal would live in them. They also allow more people to live in them than is allowed by code. When you call the city to complain/report, rarely anything is done. Its the same addresses over & over, but the buildings dept., city manager, etc. pretend to care & then do nothing.

    The slum lord is happy to let the house fall apart, no maintenance=no work or upkeep costs. Its all profit.

    Plus, some of them PREFER section 8 because the government pays 80% directly to the landlord. So there’s no worry about lost rent that comes when a normal tenant has to be evicted, since even if slum lord has a problem with section 8, slum lord is guaranteed 80%. And then who wouldn’t pay their 20% share, $200-$400 a month in rent, to live at the beach & not work? Something is very, very wrong that government subsidy will pay a “market rent” for section 8 that makes that preferable to renting to middle class families.

    & sure, there are some nice people on section 8. But what I see (and we know who they are, they’re the people who can afford to live by the beach but obviously don’t work, & they aren’t wealthy because they drive junky cars with Florida or NC license plates where auto insurance is cheaper, but aren’t snowbirds, just gaming the system). is that for the most part they bring down the neighborhood. When you don’t work for what you have, you don’t respect that other people do.

  41. yes im not sure why there are some who act like “how do you know its section8?”. Here’s how you know. No one living in the house works. They do not appear to be independently wealthy in other ways. This is true regardless of whether the person acts with class

    And I hate to say it, but the ones I see don’t act with class. They’re loud when working people want to sleep. They’re aggressive towards neighbors. They leave dog poop on the street, and garbage.

    I’m sure there are nice people on section 8 too, but I’m still waiting to meet them. I wish the stereotypes weren’t true, but they are. & its not about race, its about class, & trashy people around here come in all colors.

  42. What you have to do is go down in person, & explain to the buildings department inspectors that this is an ongoing problem. They can leave an “open violation” on the owner.

    Otherwise what happens is the owner only maintains when they get a citation, which doesnt cost them any money. SO they mow 1-2x a year, let it fall apart, & its no problem for them.

    By leaving an “open violation”, it means that the owner is fined if the property isn’t maintained. No additional warning. That way every time the weeds grow, the owner has to pay for it.

    I got very lucky that a buildings’ department employee told me this, because we had a similar problem on my block & they just let the guy get away with it despite all of us calling it in. I dont know if they’re lazy or they’ve been told to let everything slide, but it makes no sense that the same houses that have obvious violations are allowed to continue to with a slap on the wrist

    It depends who you get too. Some of them are good, but there is one very nasty guy who works for the buildings dept but will say “what is your problem?” if you ask him to enforce city code.

  43. Alison my point in sending list to Anthony was so it could be “sanitized” or redacted to a certain degree to not identify any specific person or address and if it available in the public domain of the internet then it’s already a matter of public record. I don’t want to shame anyone I’m just trying to answer the question posed,

  44. this also a definite problem here. its very clear the some cops are reluctant to do anything about drug dealing, loud parties, fighting in the street.

    so i found the secret to ending the drug houses. screw long beach PD. Call nassau county. They’ll tell you to call Long Beach. Insist that you are reporting it to them because long beach does nothing. Insist they take a report. They’ll do it

    I tried it last year after long beach ignored my report, & not long after an obvious drug house disappeared. I suspect that if you report to nassau, long beach has no choice but to do something because outsiders are involved. Otherwise, if the dealers have the right friends the cops let it go on. Nassau has jurisdiction, & while they like to punt it back to long beach we pay taxes to nassau too, they work for us as well.

    Now how do we know its a drug house? Well, its obvious when there are many, many short visits to the home. One of the giveaways is the multicultural nature of the visitors. Soccer moms in minivans, kids dressed like gangsters, people who look homeless, party girls in their 20s, all seem to have the same friends in one house.

    Try it out, I dont know where all the drug houses are myself but when I notice it, I’m calling it in. Help me out folks! Enough with guns, drugs, etc around here

  45. Allison,you are a very smart and passionate person. You can make your point without the profanity.

    Sandra B, You are correct. The bad clients taint the reputations of the good. In addition, the landlords who don’t maintain their property and rent to the bad ones have to be reined in.

  46. I read this forum quite frequently and I have yet to come across any sort of “master plan” Section 8 posts. The fact is, you can’t stop your neighbor from going Section 8. If they do, your home value is SCREWED. They are literally stealing money out of your pocket.

    If you cant afford to live here, you shouldn’t live here. Many people that work and pay )market value) to live here can barely get by. It is illogical to allow people to live almost entirely rent free in a beach resort town. This isn’t a charity.

    If you want to help people with affordable housing, fine, but don’t put them up in prime real estate and screw everyone else over.

  47. If you saw the recent supreme court ruling, you will know it’s going the other way. The Federal Government can now legally “block-bust” anywhere it wants, even to the point of forcing multi-tenant housing in locales not zoned for it – and its going to do exactly that.

  48. Again can you please post the actual sources of the mythical data, because the way I see it every one talks about section 8 data and no one produces it, unicorns and Pegasuses.

  49. Making an App that Maps all the Section8 in a given city would be a gold mine.

    It sound completely doable. Combining HUD and Publicly available info with Google Maps.

    This is a winner $$$

  50. Oh, I’m living that reality. I live in a supposed “luxury” building with insane rent…all of a sudden there are people here that obviously cannot afford to live here if they were paying what I pay.

  51. Facts often kill a good argument…

    This appears to be such a case. Getting a clean, accessible, authoritative number appears problematic; however, the representation of Sctn8 scale by MeinLB appears more than credible.

  52. A few rental buildings and coops do take Section 8 if they cannot rent their places. But since Long Beach is fairly desirable in the summertime at least and Section 8 doesn’t pay too much, only a foolish landlord would stoop to that extreme.

    If a place is halfway decent, any landlord should be able to get $1350 for a one-bedroom and not have to resort to taking Section 8 parasites at slightly higher. There are some other incentives that the government gives landlords but they hardly make up for the losses caused by most of these clients.

    There are other government programs that pay landlords much more to take parasitic non-working tenants, such as the County’s emergency housing program.

    Since there is no shortage of bad landlords, some will always bow to the pressure and simply drive out their paying tenants in favor of the monthly check from Uncle Sam.

    LBEsq. is lucky. As a tenant he can simply leave. Homeowners don’t enjoy that option and usually lose everything when victimized by Section 8.

  53. That’s how it starts, and why no building with section8 can survive long term. iStar will initially have 10%, 55 apartments. Eventually the people paying $35K a year for rent see the lifestyle of these neighbors and say “why am I paying to live here”. So they move, and it spreads, and the landlords can’t fill with new paying tenants so they backfill with more subsidized housing. And then more paying renters leave, and the death spiral continues. That’s why iStar will be a full-on housing project someday, right on prime beachfront property – it will take 10 years, but it will happen. The landlords don’t care, they will let the place rundown and just keep collecting the government payments. And they won’t be paying any taxes either, as we all know.

  54. Drive across the Atlantic Beach Bridge and turn south on Beach 26th Street. At the beachfront, you’ll find the 17 story “Metroplex Luxury Apartments”. After one year it became the wost housing project in the City, all thanks to Section 8. Stainless appliances and granite counter tops too!

    Don’t believe me? Take a look. Just make sure your doors are locked.

  55. To say that you do not understand why the program exists. And its attitudes like those displayed here that prevent the program from making a difference. Housing vouchers aka Section 8, exists to desegregate housing. And though you people hate that you are “footing the bill” as if someone was force-feeding you compassion, it’s actually more cost effective than public housing.

  56. Boodman, with all due respect, my profanity is just words and is nothing in comparison to the hateful words of people who think we should lump the elderly, disabled and low-income families into the ghetto rather than integrate into a safer, more decent home. People who seem to think that they work harder therefore deserve better housing because of their economic status despite the fact that the mother next door probably works as many hours if not more scrubbing floors, making minimum wage.

  57. Allison in what fantasy land do you really think you’re living in? What you’re describing is the definition of socialism. No, not everyone gets to live in high demand areas. I can’t afford to buy a beach front home in Malibu, does that mean I should still get one anyway because I “work as hard” as someone who can?

  58. the Malibu argument is goofy. You are not being unconstitutionally concentrated in neglected, segregated housing.

    And please do not insult me by attempting to call me a socialism or categorize me into some political party. Political parties are a useful to me as religion.

  59. Note that the only proponents of socialism are the underachievers who lack all motivation and hope and are bought off by the government’s welfare schemes.

    Even Haitian refugees who flee their hell will float 500 miles in homemade makeshift boats to reach America. If socialism was so successful and promising, why wouldn’t they simply float the 50 miles to Cuba? The answer is hope, ambition and opportunity.

    Allison has given up on all of these — sold out for a few government crumbs stolen from people who invested in good choices, education and hard work.

    Section 8 is one more transfer of wealth scheme. Unfortunately it steals life savings of hard working lower middle class who have invested their lives in “target” neighborhoods.

  60. Right on agree 100% make people accountable for there actions or lack of action. Let’s enforce the quality of life stuff and LB will be so much better

  61. People should live in an area they can afford. If they want to move to a better area they should work harder, save their money and do so.

    Just keep in mind the benifits of their hard work will not be seen quickly. It is a slow and steady process. Most importantly the Fruits of their labor may not improve their standing life at all but it will certainly benifit their children and grandchildren.

    People are selfish and want results immediately and spend their money on things they really can’t afford. People need to live within their means and teach their children to do the same. Some improvements take a generation or two to facilitate.

  62. You are correct about quality of life enforcement in LB – just look at fireworks. In years past, if you set your fireworks off on the beach – you were left alone. Right now, I see the center malls being used as launching and explosion zones – right in the middle of residential streets. Not a single police car anywhere to be seen or heard. Even a single police car driving up and down with its light bar on, shining a light and a siren on people to chase them away, would go a long way to forcing them to take their fireworks to the beach.

  63. @allison b – I didn’t say I didn’t know why it exists. I said if it worked, there’d be less people on it. Instead, people stay on it forever and the list gets longer. So t doesn’t solve the problem it’s meant to, and in some ways it exacerbates it and creates new ones.

  64. The reason that my Section8 App would be a unqualified winner is obvious.

    Any perspective homeowner would want to know who their potential neighbors are.

    Only 0.99$ from iTunes and Goggle Play- with FREE UPDATES!

  65. @Allison:

    No, the Malibu argument is identical. Person A can’t afford to live in location X. Person B can and owns property in location X. Person A is subsidized so they can live in location X when they should be searching for something they can afford on their own in location Y or Z.

    So you’re saying the poor are being unconstitutionally concentrated in neglected, segregated housing? Or was this another thinly veiled attempt to say everyone else is racist?

    Read what I wrote again, I did not call you a “socialism” or socialist, what I said is you’re describing the theory of socialism which is an economic system.

  66. Why pay for an App when you can just look for the storm doors ripped off the frame and cars parked on the lawn a la 100 block of West Walnut Street. Oh, and peek in the back yard for the workout bench and broken refrigerators.

  67. You can break it down into a simple equation. Section 8 = lower income. Lower income = high incidence of crime, etc. More crime, etc. = your property values decrease. I don’t want property values to decrease = i don’t want more Section 8.

  68. If anyone is interested in facts:

    But even HUD-sponsored studies have found a link between Section 8 tenants and higher crime. The Urban Institute found in a 2012 study that tenants who moved in the last decade from inner-city public housing to Section 8 rentals in Atlanta and Chicago suburbs tended to bring crime with them.

    “Destination neighborhoods would have been 2.8% and 5.5% lower, respectively, for violent crime in Atlanta and Chicago” without relocated Section 8 households, the study found.

    White suburbanites are not the only ones upset. Middle-class African-Americans in Chatham, Ill., for example, have complained that violent crime has moved in with tenants from Chicago projects. Black professionals there say they now hear frequent gunfire, and blame Section 8 renters involved in drugs and gangs for increased violence.

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